SWPFHA ~ TxPFHA Board Members Joint Meeting
Meeting Minutes June 3rd, 2001 11:45am - 1:30pm

Place:  The Junction Restaurant, Huntsville TX.

Attended:

SWPFHA:
Carlos Tobon, President
Ed  Smith delegate (and wife Elizabeth, daughter Meredith plus friend) 
David Sanderson Parliamentarian (and wife Beverly)
John Tonetti (Membership Chair)
Richard Weeks 
Ken Sanders

TxPFHA:
Cathy Starbuck, President (and husband Richard Ledbetter)
Mickey Beddingfield. Vice President 
Darla Gips , Secretary (and husband Doug)
Elaine Mohr (Marketing Chair) (and husband Chuck)
Martha Wells (taking notes)


Typist Comments:  Lunch began at 11:00 am, meeting actually began approximately 45 minutes afterward.

Speakers:

Ed: Let's begin our opening statements, discuss TxPFHA & SWPFHA common goals.

I talked to TX group representatives after Board Meeting in Atlanta. We talked about possibly meeting. Some SWPFHA members discussed meeting with TX first, but declined in order to meet with own group first. We understand TX put off application for membership until Oct.

Mickey: Primary goal of TX, we want to talk in ways two associations could come together in any way shape or form.

Ed: I came to this meeting with some specific ideas, some may be agreeable, some may be totally unacceptable to either group. My (list) could be a starting point.

Carlos: TX members need a chance to understand. One thing I asked as Pres for each board (of SW) member to submit each individual proposal together, to be presented to TX. Currently getting all information together to combine to present. All are not here, (Asked at Glen Rose show and just hadn't had time to compile answers nor receive all replies.)

Mickey: (spoke, typist missed it.. Asked when that data would be available. Carlos mentioned accompanying some horses to Germany and trying to work around that schedule. exact dialogue missed.)

Ed:  I'm presenting my ideas today. Hopefully this will be a starting point.

John (To Mickey) What are you looking for, or to gain specifically?

Mickey: We want to bring all Paso folk together, help SW any way we can. But beyond that, we�re not looking for anything.   

Carlos: I've been a member of SW for number of years, and have seen more unity in the past 2 years than ever before. Interest in promoting the horse, which is why we�re where we are. We understand how hard you are working, excellent way of promoting the horse. Want to know what managerial issues in order to promote the horse together. The way you�re promoting it, there is no question in our mind that this is a benefit. How can we go along to help keep promoting the horse in this manner.

Mickey: Continuing to meet like this (is helpful). It�s not very expensive for any individual to become members in either assoc., allowing members to have full membership in both. Restructuring membership to allow both.

Elaine: We need to discuss Ed�s proposal packet.

Ed: reading from notes (passes around Ed's personal handout sheet of ideas).

Taking point by point: taking it under advisement and go forward. Suggesting to enter an affiliation agreement. To avoid conflict and competition to allow us to further our common goal of promoting and demonstrating the Paso Fino horse. A shame that we had two organizations in the same geographical area competing over the same issues and goals. In public, representing the best interest of the horse to those people. This is not a good thing to be doing to promote our breed. We all like to do the same things with our horses, trail ride, CTR, tho our family focus has been to show and breed the PF horse. My suggestion is, one thing brought out in PFHA membership, this is not unique. These issues we�re facing are common to every other region. Some more than others but it�s present. Some suggestions from Great Lakes and others, broken into subchapters to accommodate those in their groups. More common interest than those at large.

They cover a large territory and serve to affiliate each other, organize trail rides, parades, clinics, things more accessible to those that reside in their locale. Some of the things we were encouraged to begin doing from a couple of the other PFHA Board delegates, TX has take steps to begin separate entity and structure. It is wise of SW to suggest TX to maintain separate identity yet ..

Mickey: Two separate regions?

Carlos: One region but two organizations.  Of 90 members if only 10 are SW members, then 80 members would still get SW vote. All stay under SW umbrella from PFHA standpoint. Yet from our own standpoint two separate clubs.

Ed quotes from literature:

Numbered points. (reads his handout in entirety).

Mickey: Does #5 indicate that SW would not do what TX does in # 6, and vice versa.

Typist interjection, from Ed Smith's handout:

       #5: In this affiliation. SW would continue to emphasize and promote thePaso as it has in the past, and as it continues to see as in it's best interest in the future. SW would continue to focus on showing and competing the Paso Fino, along with the other activities SW has, and in the future might desire to undertake.

       #6: TX would continue it's efforts and emphasis to promote the aspects of pleasure ownership, pleasure riding, trail riding, and competitive trail riding. TX would continue with it's emphasis on the social aspects of parades, trail rides, fun shows, and other social gatherings, along with the other activities TX has, and in the future might desire to undertake.

Ed: No restrictions, if each group wants to do those things individually.

you�ve formed your group, the strength you have right now, are SW weaknesses. SW  would continue managing shows, maybe not managing other activities. If either wanted to volunteer to show, they would backed and encouraged.

Ed: breaks down costs to each group (#9). Matching funds from each group.

Typist interjection:

       #9: As part of the reciprocal benefits, we would combine our efforts to put out a joint newsletter (bi-monthly), web site, and Houston R&LS booth under the name of TX & SWPFHA. Each group would give editorial input into the content of the newsletter and to the web site with articles, calendar of events, etc. TX could take the lead in managing the newsletter and to the web site. Sw would contribute a certain dollar amount, to be determined in the negotiations, per year toward this effort. $________ for the newsletter, $ _______  for the HRLS booth, and $___  for the web site. (It is my personal suggestion that the amount to be contributed by SW be not greater than $1,800.00 per year for the three aforementioned items). TX could contribute an amount equal to, less than, or greater than the amount contributed by SW.

John: We didn�t know what costs, budget, so this was not something we�re prepared to deal with at present. This wasn't something that should be mentioned at this point in time.

Carlos: We need to discuss costs because each club has reciprocal benefits overall. Your group is putting out a quality newsletter, but it's probably done using personal computers and newsletter editing programs? So we don't know costs there nor web site costs.

Ed:  SW has a set fee (up to $1800 annually) that TX either matches, or if project only requires set fee and SW has covered that TX would not need to add matching funds.  At the PFHA board level, SW continues to represent the interests of both groups.

We take the costs of representation to the board level, taking your interests into consideration. Now SW is 4th largest region. Told that our interests W of Mississippi are a lot different from the needs of those regions East of Miss. Rule change proposals and policies that would adversely affect those to the west of certain regions. Two largest regions are Fla, GA, S C., etc., they wield the �big stick� (the main interests are showing). Other things affects your interests other than showing and these have the political pull within the group itself.

Richard (Ledbetter); When I was in FL. region, numerous barns didn�t show at all. They wanted to have Pasos for fun. Not represented because they don�t have the numbers even as part of their own region. We�d like our own representation in that area.

Ed: Who represents one represents both (regions).

Carlos: How could we get PFHA to put on more sanctioned trail rides here? (topic came up while chatting with Suzanne (Seal)). There�s no saying we�re going to be against it as SW. We don�t have to split every vote on everything you bring unless it�s something SW just doesn�t want. 

Ed: Vote would have to be split if each club designates their desires one way or another.

Carlos: Nothing in either bylaws, saying you could not be on board or hold office in either / both groups.

Mickey: Your bylaws don�t explicitly state that.

Carlos: Only stipulation is you can�t run for office until you�ve been a member for a year.

John: An affiliate member that is for someone who is a member in Deep South to qualify for high point in their shows, etc., lesser fee. Nonvoting.

David:  We're members of several regions as we may show in those areas and can use points as members, but we don't vote those regions. 

Mickey: if a TX member who joins SW also, would be a full voting member.

Ed: If agreement is met if it requires amending bylaws, that�s no problem.

Mickey: If TX members became SW members also, full membership ?

Voting within the region vs PFHA voting. Nationally it doesn�t count. National vote supersedes local.

Carlos: If you become a region, then no you won�t have full voting in SW.

Mickey and Cathy:  We understand this.  

Cathy: We understand voting at PFHA level. Originally we asked for two proposals. 

We�re asking you to take into consideration that we�re looking at both issues and consider both and do not take offense that we want to become a region.  We want to work with SW whichever way we go..  

Carlos: If you reapply, if PFHA chooses to grant you a regions we�ll support you. What we�re hoping is to get together and finding some grounds that would prevent you from becoming a region. Our voting priviliges would be cut in half.

Richard (Ledbetter): TX geographical area has xxx members. If TX goes to PFHA with voting for a topic, and SW voting for same topic, voting the same way, what�s the difference?

Cathy, By working with SW, we get together to appeal to other regions as a larger power.

We�ve seen a significant number of members rejoin PFHA. We�ll have more interest than less, more overall votes at the top then less.

Ed; I disagree. Only a finite number of people are eligible for membership, not the growth you�re seeing. You�re going to have a moderate growth rate. Some range of  limitations after you�ve gotten the interest back to rejoining.

Mickey: A large number of owners who�ve never considered joining who might if they had a local �fun group�.

Carlos: Bottom line is basically you�re not going to commit to any agreement until the Oct meeting.

Cathy:  What we�ve said, we�re looking to going forward, we can�t give an answer until we meet with our own members for their opinions.

We asked Ed to come to us with two proposals. (either way) at the same time we�re going to keep our forward momentum and motion going.

Mickey: Can I add? We do want to take whatever SW feels as appropriate, one or both, but Cathy is saying we have talked to our membership and they feel we should go forward to become a region.

Ed: After getting a feel of the different dynamics of it, the plan I put forth tries to bring forth both interests of each region. All the things you do as a region of PFHA except we combine voting privileges.

Carlos: I�m not asking you to commit, but we do need to know going into this afternoon, but you�ve done the work, and continue to do so. Some people who�re not here may not understand. The moment we�re 2 regions people will stop interest in either.

Cathy: This is something our region has discussed, we�d have one delegate to represent two regions. Talked about Ed represent both, we pay half, etc. as it became clear, we realized it wasn�t going to work.

Ed: PFHA won�t allow two regions one delegate.

Carlos: I feel from the things we�ve shared today its not going to be much different, all becomes managerial issues. Two regions working together, maybe SW isn�t willing to split costs for certain issues.

Ed: Great Lakes calls subchapters, their board represents all their collective interests. They have a method of taking that into account.

Ken: Chapters are geographic area, not interest divisions. (as opposed to function)

This is a functional division. I�ve been around PFHA a long time, I�m concerned about this functional separation not addressing what I think one of the issues SW has which is geographical. Both boards consider geography?

(Still saying one region.) Should it not be considered whether this functional separation is going to strengthen or weaken us?

Ed: Ownership is concentrated in this area and South down to Houston.

I see in this instance, we have 2 entities that are already up and running, with their own officers, boards, as to what they�re trying to accomplish. May be unreasonable to ask the two to get back together to form one entity reorganize into subchapters. Would take a big step for both. We need to come to some understanding in writing or whatever to show focus in one area or another.

Carlos: When we approach a new member, we need to create a form or application. For new members to have the opportunity to be members of both or just one, etc. The State of Texas �. (interrupt)

John: Interjection  I understand a proposal about how we might proceed forward. Why is that a one way proposition? Why should I not expect a proposal from your group, say a reciprocal proposal?

Darla:  TX wants to be it's own region. But we're here to listen to SW proposal as you requested.

Mickey: Members have made it clear we�d like to have regional status. But it�s not necessary to continue the efforts of this (TX) group. Should we not get affiliation we�ll still be a horse group of some sort.

John: To hear that clarifies something. If there were terms and issues you could say "if you�d do this we�d feel justified in not pursuing our regional status."  If there is nothing that we can do now, then we agree to meet in Oct.

Mickey: We have no other means than membership dues. A lot of our group came in as lifetime but that�s not happening annually. Expenses often come out of private pockets.

Elaine: To me this looks good (Ed�s proposals). Both groups can work really well, where one falls short the other can pick up. A lot of cynicism in TX that they don�t feel their issues would be addressed. My first thought is I like it. It sounds good. I don�t want to lose the numbers either. I thought we could share a delegate.

Cathy: You (John) used the words "nothing" Carlos earlier said "impossible." We want to hear, listen, consider the proposal, we want to go to our members. Our Board is trying to keep thinking positively. We feel like the votes at the top of PFHA are an issue, whether we�re one or two regions. We�re also not just votes with PFHA, but meeting members' at the bottom needs also. All of us can agree, promoting Paso Fino is the real issue.

We�d like to see SW succeed & how we can help their shows, having volunteers. Our goal is more owners, more growth of the breed and I think we all can agree with that.

Ed: You keep saying there are almost 500 owners, are they registered PF owners?

We can determine how many owners but it�s a finite number. As PFHA records indicate. But that�s your most fertile ground. Once that happens, your new interest groups will be outside the breed owners. Competing over the same group of people that are out there.

Cathy: To me it�s exciting the number of people that are out there, maybe not 500 but more than any of us realize. The potential of growth for all areas, pleasure, shows, stallions used, etc. We have an aggressive marketing plan to promote the interest in the breed that very few other regions have.

We�ve got them interested, going to different farms, may not be our farms. We don�t consider it as competition, but as a benefit to all Paso breeders.

Ed: If we can�t find a way to affiliate and work together, we�ll be at some point in competition. Some time PFHA will expect you to put on a show.

Mickey, Carlos and Cathy: No they don't.

Carlos: That is important in my mind to find some working relations with SW.

Cathy: A lot of people have been lax in their membership but we're reaching these people in a different way.

Ken: A lot of things Cathy is saying are the actual areas weakened in SW in the last couple of years, they don�t solicit membership. You have to enforce yourself. Where are the people? We don�t go out and ask them. You join SW and you literally have to push yourself in front of people.

Some people that spent the weekend at my place, (we had a trail ride at my house). Some people had a great turnout at Glen Rose but show was not a fun show. Not enough (non-competitive) activities.

Old days, at every show, at the end there would be some fun classes.

Carlos:  We did have fun events at Glen Rose but they were held after the regular show.

Elizabeth:  Where? Where were the volunteers from your group to help with our show?

Cathy: You may have had TX members as volunteers, but they're all still SW members also. TX isn't a group yet, we've only been getting people together since first of this year.

With this new group, we have a fresh start in enthusiasm and excitement, even in participating in the shows. Now the number of people are growing as the enthusiasm grows.  We're promoting activities which will only help promote show participation in the long run.

Ed: I don�t want to kill anyone's enthusiasm. Going to ask TX to give up their separate group as a region would kill off their drive. By the same token, if we don�t go with each other, we may have more hard feelings, step on each other's toes, competing with each other. Suggesting it�s not too late to remedy that. I�m trying to promote something that takes into everything you�ve already accomplished. (Refers to his list).

Carlos: You want 2 proposals, we will discuss those solutions, we�ll promote the horse together. We don�t know whether memberships will accept joint proposals,

We do have SW elections coming up, if you have members interested, please suggest to them to run for our office. In Oct., we don�t know what is going to happen.

Nominating committee is, Ken Sanders, George Self, Nancy Flick and Dan Mobley.

Richard (Ledbetter): Your major opposition is fear of breaking down the voting block of PFHA.

David: Overlapping interests, competing for new members. We�re not opposed to new regions geographically. New regions are healthy for PFHA. Confusing issues come from overlapping membership.

Cathy: What I'm hearing is that if we get geographical boundaries you'll be for us. Do you not realize that competition can be a good thing for both regions?

Ed:  It�ll create separation and it�ll end up at some time at cross- purposes with each other.

Carlos:  Let's finish this, we both have the same principles, taking it to our members. (We will) Let you know how our meeting took place.

Cathy: Even if we were an offical region, SW gets the vote automatically. Unless they (members) specifically request TX as their voting region on their application. We felt we're being aboveboard all the way.

Ed: PFHA�s perspective in my view, they let one region in on that basis. I don�t like it because now we have regions that have status that are not on the same basis with each other. I opposed it at our meeting. Voted against it.

We need to maintain uniformity in the way we present to PFHA. A positive way to solve the issues in some degree. Still don�t think it�s right (two regions).

John: I am reiterating my point that SW does not have the total responsibility to come up with ideas about how you�ll refrain from pursuing your separate identity.

Carlos:  (replied, typist missed comments.)

Cathy:  SW wants TX to join them.  That's why you are coming to us with the proposals. TX is going forward one way or the other.

Meeting ended at 1:30. SW members joined their club members at a 2pm meeting in Willis.


2001  TxPFHA Updated:   July 22, 2007